I would like to know the answer too. Anyone here know what is the right answer. I'll do some research in Google and get back to you if I discover an answer. You should email the people at Lending Tree as they probably could help you..

That's what I believe as well. Does anyone have any opinion on whether simply committing a violation is enough to justify suing, or is it necessary to show that their actions were damaging?..

Basically, I know they violated the FDCPA by calling me in the middle of the night, however they called my work number so it didn't wake me up or anything. I suppose I should talk to an attorney about whether it would be worth it to sue. Their actions didn't harm me at all, however they clearly violated the law which states that they should not be calling between 9pm to 8am...

Have you sent them a validation request? Sounds like you have them on one violation, you should get them on a few more.....

A collector can call at work between 9pm and 8am because at work, they can't wake you up..

If there is a violation here, it's the six messages in a single night...

I understand what you are saying, but I haven't seen that spelled out in the FDCPA. It just states that from 8am to 9pm is the reasonable time to call. They are only calling me at work because that is the only number they know. It probably wouldn't be difficult for me to have them start calling me at home and actually piss me off enough that I'll run to the courthouse, however I'm not really interested in talking to them. They did the same thing last week too so this seems to be a weekly thing...

The law sets specific times a CA can call, it does NOT distinguish between home or work. It is a violation, but on it's own probably not enough for a lawsuit. Most of the FDCPA is legislative intent, and if they meant to exclude a certain place to call the consumer, they would have included it in the law..

WALLST..

I work from home often, for example, when my infant child is ill and needs more attention in the daytime. During those few days from time to time that I work at home, my office phone is forwarded to my home number..

OR.

My pager goes off whenever I get a voicemail at work..

Slam dunk...

Mycroft...where do you get your info??? YOU ARE WRONG ONCE AGAIN..

What a bunch of critics!.

The time restriction is only.

In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary.

..

If I know the debtor can take calls at work, that's knowledge of circumstances to the contrary. That is, if he's there, he's awake and can take my call. If he's not there, then leaving a recorded message in his personal mailbox is no different than leaving a message at home. He gets that message when it's convenient..

The violation here is six calls in an hour and a half. That's harassment. Lakpr got it right on that one...

Let's take another look at that..

The way I see it you twisted it to read the way you want it to read..

The way I read it is that.

A debt collector shall assume first and foremost that the proper time to make calls to debtors shall be after 8 o'clock antimeridian and before 9 o'clock postmeridian, local time at the consumer's location;.

And for that reason I say the following from you is pure baloney and if a bill collector ever calls one of my students at that time and under those conditions I hope he eats a huge hole in their hind pocket in court..

And I think you need a reality check..

It is never appropriate to call anyone at their place of business or their place of work. It is disruptive and it is appropriating the resources of the business or the employer and converting them to your purposes..

Business phones are there for the sole purpose of promoting the business interests of the owner(s) and bill collectors calling up their employees at any time is nothing more nor less than theft by conversion. Pure plain and simple. You like making these moralistic judgments on others, so take this one yourself..

Morally speaking, when you call a debtor at his place of employment you are endangering his job and you are stealing the resources of his employer and it makes no difference whether it is day or night..

Morally speaking then you are nothing but a thief even though you had no intention or understanding of.

Being a thief..

Practically speaking, too bad such thieves can't be prosecuted, put on probation and made to do community service at the very least. Maybe even spend their nights and weekends in jail to assure the public that they won't be committing their criminal acts in the future..

Now then, I hope you realize that I don't mean that personally. Just mean it as a reality check..

If I remember correctly you weren't the person did that anyway so you couldn't be guilty of the act. But you did agree with it...

Actually there's a simpler solution to the 3 a.m. telephone call, irrespective of ones sleeping schedule. It's called the Cease & Desist provision of the FDCPA, lol. Here are the applicable letters:.

1).

Cease & Desist.

2).

Cease & Desist 02.

3).

Cease & Desist 03.

4).

Cease & Desist 30 Days Later.

Doc :)..

Hey Bauer,.

Please do us all a favor and stop removing the name of the poster when you quote them..

Pretty Please?..

Yes, if you take out.

In the absence of knowledge of circumstances to the contrary.

Then it says exactly what you want it to say. LOL!.

With enough editing, it could say anything!.

Then I hope you have some case law to support your interpretation. Else your student might be disapointed in his/her choice of teacher. :).

When I was a bill collector, I never called a person at work when I could reach them at home. If they complained about my calling them at work I suggested some solutions: 1) Be available when I call at home. 2) Call me so I don't have to call you. 3) Let's work something out so that who calls who and when isn't an issue anymore..

And yes, I get what you're trying to do here, put the moral argument back on me. It's a noble effort. My response is that I respect your opinion on this matter, even if I don't share it...

The name of the poster only shows up when one uses the quote function which I never do except this time..

I simply do a copy & paste into the new message. That way I get the message parts I want and not the part the quote function thinks is all I need..

I guess I could do the copy & paste function first and then hit quote and clean up whatever mess before I pasted the message in. Lots of extra fooling around that.

Way..

Didn't realized not having the name of the poster in there would be disconcerting to some. Just didn't stop to think about it..

I'll try to remember to type in who I'm speaking to after this. I can see the advantage to it..

Thanks for letting me know how you feel...

I can only see two reasons why they would call the workplace at such hours:.

-they expect someone to pick up.

-they intend to harrass (blatantly obvious if they know that you are not working at these hours).

Either constitutes a violation of FDCPA...

Mycroft:.

That is a real laugh. Doc just posted the answer in an earlier post to you. Cease & Desist. But I don't need any 4 or 5 letters to get my points across. In a manner of speaking, I don't even need one. Kind of like the old Brylcreme ads which always said "A little dab will do ya!" And is there case law to back me up? You betcha.



That came to us from British Law. Probably was in existance over there since they wrote the Magna Carta at Runnymeade June 15, 1215. Cease & Desist is one of the most respected parts of FDCPA because the bill collectors fear it so much..

WOW! Not a chance! I'm just trying to get you to understand that morality is properly used to teach little kids why they need to conduct themselves in ways that are more acceptable to adults..

Morality has always been used as a control mechanism for the other fellow. But you say you aren't a bill collector any more so what reason do you have to attempt to control others here in this or any other message board? None as far as I can see except as you have more than abundantly pointed out, it makes you feel good. This message board isn't about helping Mycroft or Shot Caller feel good. Its about helping people fix problems..

Which is obviously falling on deaf ears, rolling off you like water off a duck's back..

Then if you don't share the opinions of what is obviously a majority of posters here on this board you might be better received over on MSN or some other board..

Judging from most of the posts addressing you and your actions I'd say you aren't all that likely to enhance that warm fuzzy feeling you so obviously crave...

Uhm, you confuse me with this one..

A Cease & Desist letter will certainly make the calls stop, but it's not "the" answer to this situation, it has nothing to do with the calls being an FDCPA violation or not. There doesn't need to be an FDCPA violation to use a Cease & Desist letter..

Morality is a control mechanism? That statement speaks for itself, I can't add anything to it except to say I'm sorry you think that way..

I'm trying to control people? I suppose you could look at it that way, but if you do you have to admit you're trying to control people too..

There is an old saying. Where two people share the same opinions, one of them is unnecessary..

I've never thought it very important to conform with the majority. The majority isn't always right, and they don't always make the best decisions..

One final note on Cease and Desist letters:.

In my opinion, a Cease and Desist letter should only be used when the calls from the bill collector are so disruptive/abusive that they interfere with the debtors ability to deal with the problem..

Getting collection calls at work that may threaten your employment is a perfect example. It's really hard to pay a bill (or defend yourself from unfair practices) when you're unemployed..

A Cease and Desist letter will make collection calls stop, but as long as the collector is calling, that means the creditor is still trying to make voluntary arrangements on the account. While getting collection calls is not a nice thing to experience, it is better than some of the alternatives..

Once you have sent a Cease and Desist letter, you only leave the creditor with two alternatives:.

1) Let it go, stop trying to collect..

2) Sue..

Which option any one creditor will choose will depend on the creditor and their collection strategy. The debtor really needs to be aware of the risk involved in sending these letters..

A Cease and Desist letter should never be the only strategy used in dealing with a creditor. It's best used to give the debtor some breathing room while they arrange something else, like payment or legal defense..

An exception to that would be if the collection attempt is really stupid, such as a creditor trying to collect a debt that is out of statute...

Quote:.

A collector can call at work between 9pm and 8am because at work, they can't wake you up..

*Don't bet on that !!! lol.

Bill Bauer.

===================.

*Rite Bill a lot of folks are asleep on the job,especially CAs OCs and CRAs..

Double LOL on this one ..

One for me and one for you..

The END ************************* LB 59..

Where in the FDCPA does it say that? I cant say I've ever seen that anywhere.. please cite...

Below is how I do it..

It's so simple anybody that doesn't have a mental block can understand it..

Quote.

Poster.

=================================.

My reply..

Y'know I was getting pretty close to making that request myself. I wonder if he does it intentionally..

Well, I've got a mental block, so would you please consider doing it the regular way? :).

Doc..

I didn't know you had one to block..

Low blow I know, sorry doc but some times I just can't help myself.At leqst you can be proud of me for doing it the regular way.LOL..

ALRIGHT! :) LOL, no offense taken. Actually, the "standard" quote sets off your signature really nicely so everything becomes really clear to me which piece is the quote, which is your comment, and which is your sig. When you do it "lb" way, lol, it all kind of blends together and I have to work triple-duty to sort it out. (That mental block again, lol.).

Doc..

Thanks Bill..

I just hit the quote button, highlight all that I DON'T want and delete that..

Just saves us from trying to figure out who said what..

:)..

Granted that there doesn't need to be an FDCPA violation to use a Cease & Desist. Cease & Desist can create the violation however. But none of that is the real point in the first place.

There isn't really any other way to think of it in my opinion. How else do you think it is used. Teaching? Same thing..

All of us are one way or the other. In a far fetched sense, even the newbie posting his first question might be said to be trying to control the actions of others. After all, he wants to get an answer don't he? And in order to do that he has to entice someone to answer his questions. So in a sense he is trying to contol the actions of others even though that is the furtherest thought in his mind if it even exists at all which it normally would not. Far fetched? Yes, but it's a bit like the anology of walking. We never stop to think about it while walking but walking is nothing more than the process of repeatedly falling down and then putting out the next foot to prevent the fall..

Well, that is your opinion and of course you are entitled to it. But my opinion is that they should always be used to prevent the inevitable..

The fact of unemmployement has nothing whatever to do with the.

Defense or control of unfair debt collection practices. The unemployed and the employed can both do it equally well if they know how..

That statement shows that you are not all that familiar with C&D. Vaguely familiar, yes, but that's obviously about the size of it..

My students are thoroughly instructed in their use..

Of course. Just like validation and estoppel. They too are only a part of effectively dealing with a creditor or collector. A very necessary part, but only a small part..

Both of which are purely defensive strategies. I don't talk about or teach much about defensive strategies. Wars are not won by defensive strategies. Only offensive strategies win the battle. Under all normal conditions a legal defense is going to be a loser from the git-go..

That happens all the time too. If there is something stupid that can be done a debt collector will usually do just that if he is given even half a chance to do so...

Prevent the inevitable? Oxymoron..

Naturally the employed and unemployed share the same legal rights. It's just that the unemployed may find the distractions of maintaining food and shelter take away from their ability to focus on defending them..

Given a choice, I'm sure you students would prefer to maintain their employment..

That's a pretty vague statement, Bill. How does it show that? You need to give a little more information..

Are they? If I had a teacher that said always use them to prevent the inevitable, I'd take a long hard look at the cost of tuition..

Cease and Desist letters are an important part of defending consumer rights, but they are not silver bullets. The consumer that chooses to use them needs to be aware of exactly what they do and what the risks are..

Well, then let me end this on the point we agree on...

Mycroft, seems obvious to me what the problem may be..

Although you say that you are no longer a collector what assurance do we have that such is true?.

Given the fact that the ACA has just recently put up an article in their sleaze rag hollering about how people ought to trust their friendly "professional" bill collector and not listen to those who tell people not to talk to them on the phone because that will surely hurt them terribly and then we get you in here basically trumpeting the exact same old tripe and ranting and raving about how my students ought to take a long hard look at the cost of tuition and all of that in the face of statements made by people such as nvbonedoc, psychdoc, Tuit and lots more telling how much my teachings have helped them it should be obvious to one and all that you very well may be using such weak attacks as you might be able to muster in an attempt to chase people away from that which is hurting your industry pretty badly..

I am beginning to think that you have got the idea that by simply claiming that you only used to be a bill collector you can win friends and influene people..

I believe that folks around here are smart enough to understand that no normal person would put so much effort into trying to create a positive image for the collection agency if they didn't actively work in that area..

We have seen real ex-collection agency people here and they have all had a totally different perspective than you do..

Just putting all the available evidence together seems to me that the only logical conclusion to come to is that you have a pro collection agency agenda to push and you will continue to push it to the bitter end no matter what that might turn out to be..

That's what I think...

Lol!.

Bill, you continue to amaze me..

I guess none of us know anything about anyone, do we? For all any of us know, nothing is real and all our brains are wired into a giant computer that simulates what we think of as reality..

Have you seen the Matrix?.

For the record, I quit the collections business more than five years ago when I got my first job in the mortgage industry. If you choose to believe otherwise...<shrug>..

OK Mycroft, I'll play your silly little game..

<shrug>..