That's a good question. I'm not sure what is the answer to your question. I'll do some Googling and get back to you if I find an anything. You should email the people at Lending Tree as they probably could assist you..

That makes no sense to me. This board should know that a lifestyle change is required to quash bad credit. Thats not my opinion, but a realistic fact proven by people who have done it..

I think most (obviously not all, see Dentist board today) understand that a lifestyle change is needed if you have bad credit. (add to that an attitude change in most people).

Example: a fat guy losing weight can't simply get a liposuction and continue to eat Mcdonalds..

A few observations I have about this whole CN/YM/Credit boards thing:.

If you declare BK, it's pretty much assumed that you know you need to change something. Most people I know who have done the BK thing HAVE changed for the most part and are MUCH better managers of their money and credit..

Having COLLECTIONS are another story. I think it's directly realated to failure to budget and communicate with lenders/creditors. It's also a direct result of a mentality people have when dealing with debt. Either they flat out refuse to pay what they owe, or they are too embarrased or scared to pay it. In either situation, there's an easy out, you just have to make the choice to bite the bullet and resolve it. Thinking that "it will go away" won't help it..

Budgeting. Having a solid budget and STICKING TO IT is a sure fire way to avoid most collections and late pays..

Income: Fact is this, the more income, the less debt you need to incur, and the more money you keep. Not saying people with more income have less debt, but someone making 25K a year is likely to borrow more than someone making 50K a year, thus paying more interest and losing what little money they have left...

Not saying the "pay your bills" mentality works for everyone, but if you get a better job, wisely budget, and do your best not to have a bad attitude, your credit problems tend to resolve themselves..

I don't care if someone has had a collection or a BK or a repo or a hemmeroid..

I do think that telling the patrons of all of our popular credit/money boards that they need a lifestyle change in ADDITION to the solutions they request would be a step in the right direction..

I'm also interested in the "fail" rate of people who come here (and there) for advice. I want to know if, when they have a derog removed, another pops up. I'd like to know if they have further medical bills or yet another cell phone collections, do they do it again. Do they rack up their credit rating only to fail to pay a bill and have to start over..

This is not a troll, just something to think about...

Well, I CAN answer it completely, and in fact it won't take very long..

For whatever reason those from MSN.

REFUSE.

To learn the right way to do stuff. BTW - there ARE CN members who are the same way, don't get me wrong..

No matter how many people prove them wrong they're still NEVER wrong, regardless of the overwhelming proof..

CN has a certain way things need to be done. It's the most successful way, (although admittedly not always perfect)..

We rarely feel inclined to waste our time with someone who refuses to learn..

There has been numerous MSN members who've come here, learned, and then went back to MSN to try and teach them. Only to then be laughed off the board. Why bother?.

See?.

:)..

Amazing, you've been one week? Or is two? And you have it all figured out. I would suggest you read the 1106 pages of posts here to see what this board is truly about..

We talk almost daily about lifestyle changes. Many people that are here made their mistakes when they were young and dumb, and now want to fix their problems and begin to handle money in a sound fashion..

Others that are here have suffered some sort of financial crisis, and are trying to get help/advice how to minimize the damage, and get back on the right track..

Have you read many of the suggestions on how to clear up debt? Its not only about getting it off your report. Its about getting it paid. Day in and day out, we help people plan a course of action to do just that..

Have you read the post from Willdogs today? With this board's help he has.

Paid off.

Several debts and is now on the right track..

You should really read some of the success stories, and the thank yous this board has received from people. Most will go on to say they NOW understand how credit works, and they vow not to get back in the same position. You should also take a look at the posts, when it is obvious someone is asking for help, but doing nothing to help themselves i.e. continuing similar patterns - they get flamed..

I hope and pray for you that you never suffer some of the horror stories that have come through this board. Lengthy loss of jobs due to downturns in the economy; a devastating car wreck where the other driver had no insurance; a long term illness of a child that prevents you from working because you have no one to take care of that child; a premature baby that requires hundreds or thousands of dollars just to survive; a debilitating illness of your own; or anything else for that matter that sucks your life savings dry and continues sucking when there is nothing left..

Oh, if we could all live in the perfect world that you do. But then, this board wouldn't be here...

Beautifully, elegantly said Jodi..

You're one classy dame..

:)~..

I hope and pray for you that you never suffer some of the horror stories that have come through this board. Lengthy loss of jobs due to downturns in the economy; a devastating car wreck where the other driver had no insurance; a long term illness of a child that prevents you from working because you have no one to take care of that child; a premature baby that requires hundreds or thousands of dollars just to survive; a debilitating illness of your own; or anything else for that matter that sucks your life savings dry and continues sucking when there is nothing left..

This isn't meant in a bad way, but if they had good jobs with good insurance and a good budget with an emergency fund of a few months expenses, then would they have been in the situation?.

Obviously, the downfall from the job loss isn't anyone's fault aside from the employee. You always need an emergency fund..

The baby is another story, but hostpitals usually quash most of the fees, trust me, I've been in that situation..

[edit]..

Jlynn-.

Your post is well thought out and very sincere. I applaud your attention to detail. I think the original poster probably had not gone through the thousands of posts, but it does not diminish a good point. We cannot always sort through thousands of posts when making changes. It can be overwhelming sorting through the wealth of information here. I have wondered about the possibility of "categories" for individuals to post to.

Any thoughts?..

In my case, I was ready to make the lifestyle change to get my finances back on track, but I didn't want to pay the seven year penalty after I'd done so. I was 34 years old when I started to fix my credit. The prospect of not being able to rent a car or buy a house or pick up a dinner check or have a checking account or even answer the phone in the evening until I was 41 was unthinkable..

Let's face it, a lot of people here are instant-gratification types. That's probably why we all got into our credit messes to begin with. So you're going to tell me I have to change my lifestyle right now and wait seven years for the payoff? Not a chance. With the Creditnet way of doing things I changed my lifestyle AND got my credit restored in one-seventh of the time. Was that wrong? I don't see how. I did nothing but make a few phone calls, write a few letters and send a few emails..

If anyone thinks our way of doing things is wrong, then they shouldn't follow our path. There is a definite culture here and we like it that way...

And if wishes were horses then beggars would ride too now wouldn't they?.

Of course if they had good jobs and if they had good insurance and if they had a good budget and if they had an emergency fund of at least $25,000 cash..

If they had that they wouldn't need any credit..

Get real...

Bill,.

Don't be a dick. Millions of people live on 30-50K a year and the only credit they use is for a mortgage. Thats what I do. I pay cash for things with the money I save in interest by not using credit..

I posted in good faith. Don't start any fights...

Mycroft ,.

I think it's somewhat of an insult to say that people come here to change their credit report, and not their ways. On reading this board, have you read of anyone here who fixed their credit, and went on being irresponsible with their credit matters?.

The mere fact that people come here to get help fixing the problem is a first step to realizing good credit is paramount, and once they've attained it, they would do everything they could to keep it that way. We're all adults aren't we?.

I myself came here feeling I'll have to be paying high rates forever. I make a very good income, but I could never have anything to show for it at the end of the month because of extremely high rates. Having attained good credit, I save literally thousands in financing costs, and you're insinuating that people like me aren't mature enough to want to keep it this way?.

See, the problem I've seen with MSN is that, MSN people seem to be saying if there's something bad on your credit, it's your fault, nothing can be done about it.. Juststart paying your bills on time, wait 7 years and it'll fall off. I just always feel sorry for the newbies there who're desperate to fix their credit like I was when I first came here...

That's the $64,000 question. I suspect we don't know the majority of the failures because for the most part those people don't stick around and post their experiences. There is someone who comes to mind here who has been brave enough to post about their bad-to-good-to-bad credit story and as painful as this must be for that person, it's a good warning to everyone else..

It's too bad we can't find a way to study the short and long term results of our philosophy...

Thanks Bill, another person that has lived in the real world...

On top of that no message board can be a Jack of all trades type of board. If that is what goes on then it soon degenerates into just a chit-chat board and nobody learns anything. Any messages that did contain valuable and useful information would soon be gone never to be found again..

That's what is good about blogs and ezines and autoresponders and websites. Information that is valuable can be stored on them for years on end and not get lost. The newest thing to hit the net are the blogs..

They really aren't new either. I've been involved in blogs since their inception and reserved mine about 2 years ago but never did anything about it. That's because they were just in their infancy and needed a ton of developmental work on them before they could become viable tools..

Now the basic software development is done and the larger companies and state governmentsare starting to pick up on them and put them to work. They can greatly reduce training time and costs and help keep projects on schedule..

Blogs can also be used to keep development team members on the same track and make the process much smoother..

They can also be extremely helpful in customer support areas by reducing the amount of live tech support time needed to get customer service problems.

Handled quickly and with less effort..

Companies are also turning to them for search engine placement enhancement as well as for marketing of services and products..

Message boards are great too but valuable information gets lost in the maze very quickly never to be seen again and blogs can help preserve them for future use..

But having a wide range of interests and topics only contributes to the shortcomings of the message boards..

I think we are much better off with a narrower focus...

I'd be willing to bet that the regression rate is pretty hefty. I've got quite a few reasons for believing that..

I've seen far too many people who just aren't good planners. So they fall right back into the same old rut all over again and again and again..

I know that sounds pretty harsh but my experience is that such is the case..

They aren't bad people, they don't intend to do that but that's just the way they are..

How many times have we seen women get into a bad marriage because they hung around bars and dance halls and ran into some guy who married them and beat the living daylights out of them and so they divorced and went right back to the bars to do it all over again?.

And how many have we ever seen that realized what they were doing and went out and took martial arts classes so they could defend themselves successfully?.

(LOL).

I guess that's about what I do is teach the martial arts of dealing with abusive debt collectors..

(LOL).

Never thought of it that way until just writing this message...

Imagine that! Creditwrench™ the debtor's Kung Fu..

(LOL)..

I guess that's about what I do is teach the martial arts of dealing with abusive debt collectors..

***********************.

Crouching credit bureau, hidden BBauer. I like that! lol..

I guess I'm partially responsible for the problem. I've been a regular poster over at your money also known as lrssms. It has always been a problem with the attitudes of a few people over there. One particular is Shot Caller - he works for a collection agency and does nothing but belittle anyone in debt. He lacks objectivity..

I've been posting over there for weeks for new commers to come to this board for CR advice and the chitchat site for bk info..

For example, a married 34 year couple in 30k of debt, I believe should consider bk. This person is over 1/2 way to retirement and should be considering spending more time with his/her family and saving for retirement. The less the person saves now, the more I'll pay in taxes later. Better the banks to take a loss than the government to incur more debt with an aging population. The last thing that couple should do is have 2-3 jobs and miss out on their children or be forced to put thier children in day-care. Especially since it will take 12+ years to payoff that kind of debt..

Over at YM this solicits reponses of irresponsible, jerk, loser etc.....

I noticed over at ym complaints about this site and how they are being kick-off. I believe most of the "regulars" over at money are collectors, mortgage companies, or bank representives giving out poor information..

Sorry, but I will continue to recommend newcomers to this site instead...

One particular is Shot Caller - he works for a collection agency and does nothing but belittle anyone in debt. He lacks objectivity..

He doesn't WORK for a collection agency, he IS a collection agency..

The guy owns a payday loan business, he's legit and 99% of the time right on...

Sorry, he's not right on. He lacks complete vision. Looks at the here and now, and not the picture. He's linear, not dynamic..

Have you seen his posts, I kind of pitty him. In a nut shell, he only sees the green in life, never the rainbow. Unfortunately, too many people think green leads to rainbow, when all it does is point you in the opposite direction..

Getting to deep...

I will give my experience for the record. I was one of the people who was military and was required to pick up and move at the governments whim. Upon a move to California, I closed my telephone account requested a final bill, gave a fowarding address, and did not request my deposit ( I was about 19).

Guess what happened, the bill was never sent to me, it was sent to a collection agency, who basically called me a deadbeat and ruined my credit, along with a bunch of other stuff. I paid this collection agency within a month of 1st contact and this crap has haunted me ever since..

Sometimes things are beyond a mere mortal's control. Companies and government entities are bogged in bureacracy and unfortunately, the little man gets crapped on. I work for a government entity and believe me, we crap on people all the time. I have seen assessments done, judgements sought and gained, all without the sucker taxpayer having a clue..

So the logic of budgeting your money, saving a nest egg and living within your means would not apply to all situations. In a nutshell this board has not pigeon-holed people or labeled them and that is why I frequent it...

Just what is a legal assessment of taxation?.

What is the proper form number for the assessment of taxation?.

What does it consist of? What must appear upon it's face in order to qualify as a legal assessment of taxation?.

I was unaware that IRS ever used judgments. I have always been under the impression that all they ever did was to file a NOTICE OF LIEN..

What is a taxpayer? Who has ever defined what a taxpayer is? What is it that.

Makes a person a taxpayer?.

Does a RACS 006 constitute lawful assesment of taxation?.

How can one get a copy of his IMF and the IRS manual which defines the codes found in his IMF so that he knows what they mean?..

It is easy for some people to belittle those that have money or credit problems. It is a real authority who has been on both sides of the situation and can take his/her time to help those in need without being judgmental. There are moral issues to many situations in life..

What I like about this board is that there are real people who have been through many credit situations and they unselfishly take their time to help others without being judgmental. Also, the vets on this board don't have an agenda like the so called experts on MSN..

It is also sad that the popular media buys into the crap that is espoused on MSN and others like; go to CCCS, work with the CA's, etc. The average person doesn't know what to do but if they hear it on TV.....it must be true. NOT!.

My message for today!.

:).

NV Bone Doc.

True health comes from within..

Well, I think both boards have both kinds of people - those that want to change their ways and those that don't. I found this board to have more substance than MSNM. I started with 24k in July 2001 and I'm now at 12k. It will be paid off by March 15th 2004, 2 years and 8 months after I started repaying it. That repayment includes over 305 DVDs, a 5 megapixel digital camera, a laptop (well, that was 2002 tax refund), and a portable DVD player..

How did I do it? A little over 300 overtime hours in 2002 and over 300 overtime hours in Jan-April of this years. I have a 25k salary since July 2002 and less before that. If I can repay 24k of debt in less than three years on a 25k salary, anyone can..

There are those who shy away from credit. I'm not one of them. I've gotten a $250 secured card, a $5000 platinum card that is now a $7700 card, a $200 Mobil card that I -just- got approved for two days ago, and a $1,000 Dillards store card (funny story - I was reviewing my credit report through PrivacyGuard.com beccause someone has used my SS# to get at least 4 cards (I have to follow her around having the cards shut down) and saw a 1999 Dillards card. I called and was told that yes it was still open with a $400 limit. Since it's a fairly old card (for me, anyway) I decided to keep it open and the rep asked if I wanted a limit increase. I haven't used this card in like 4 years, if ever.

I figure I'll do my clothes shopping there when they have sales to build up some usage history)..

The changes I've made have raised my score from the 400's to the 600's. I got into the debt trap when I was a jobless student. As soon as I graduated and landed a job in July 2001, I started repaying everything. When I finish with all the debt I'll see if I can pile some more - of the good, mortgage-type one though :) Taxes were made to married people with kids and a house, I tell you. Nothing but taxes for us single, child-less renter ones...

Okay, a little tax law education for you Bill, when a taxpayer does not file a tax return for themselves and has been notified that they are required to file, the IRS has this little known program called SFR-substitute for return. Basically we file the tax return for you and do not take into consideration any deductions. This in turn gives you, taxpayer, an assessment, the IRS assesed it, not you.

At this time we begin the process of collecting on this information. Since the government is Big Brother, the IRS receives your wage information, 1099-MISC, 1099-C, dividends,etc. At this time, is when the real fun happens, levies, liens, repo of real cash assets, etc..

The tax law is based on congressional law. This is what we send those jerks to washington to come up with. The codes are secret and when you leave the IRS, you cannot take confidential information..

Basically it is a system where you, joeblow are screwed and the IRS, US gov, and some poor slob who only makes about 10 bucks an hour are the winners...

Hey Deb, I'm going to bring up the post from the other day, when you asked about credit increases, but didn't want to name the bank because of privacy issues. But now, you just told us you have a Mobil card and a Dillards card. My point is that you really could have told us the other bank and you probably would have gotten some good answers...

There's a reason I don't want to mention that particular card. I'm not trying to be difficult, that's just one piece of information I don't want to give. :)..

When a what? We don't have a definition of the word "taxpayer" in this discussion yet so I don't know what you are referring to here..

Me? I have very severe reservations about thatI sincerely doubt that I fall under the legal definition of "taxpayer"[quote]And a "program" eh? What statute defines the SFR as a lawful assessment of taxation?.

I've seen that happen more than once..

[quote]And IRS cannot make law, tax or otherwise. They can and do make codes, regulations and what have you but only Congress and the President has the power to make law..

That's funny. Secret eh? Why is it that I just happen have had a copy of it in my office this morning? I can understand why they would like to keep it as secret as possible since this mornings little meeting with a lady who has worked as a nurse all her life yet her IMF file claims she is a manufacturer of pistols, rifles, shotguns and submachine guns according to the code book..

I know another man who is over 80 and his IMF says he is a distiller and distributor of wines, spirits and alcohol. In fact I've seen several peoples classifications after the IRS started coming after them and all of them have been charged with being manufacturers of fire arms, distillation and distribution of alcohol and in many case of drugs. Not one of them could possibly even come close to any of that..

Be that as it may, what is the legal definition of a "taxpayer" and what is a lawful assessment of taxation?.

I realize you said you don't work for them anymore so.

Please don't think I'm trying to pick a fight with you cuz you're one of them revenooers..

(LOL)..

Well to define a taxpayer, as the US government defines is any person who legally or illegally resides within the United States and it's borders..

Trust me, I have received many stories from Tax Protestors who state and they are in some instances totally right, that they are residents of the state and therefore are not subject to Federal taxes. Unfortunately, the US has taken many of these people to court and with law on their side, made these people subject to taxes..

As far as the income information. I left in 1999 but there was a trend that was beginning to arise. There were people who were working and living under other's social security numbers. The employers, who I believe were in cahoots, would employ an alien who provided them with the required documents..

The SFR program is based on information that is provided by the social security administration. There is a code for it, but I am unable to think of what it is off the top of my head..

I don't take offense to bashing IRS, I too, have been a victim of the beast. I just learned the hard way to keep my head down, check my SSA statement of income and ensure that I don't become a victim of further ID fraud...

Well, that may be the way IRS defines it but the federal courts don't seem to agree with them. Four federal judges have all ruled that a person is not a taxpayer unless and until they have lawfully been assessed a tax. Probably one of the most notable was the landmark 10th circuit case of Radinsky v. U.S. in 1964 wherein Judge Richard Matsch ruled exactly that. There have never been any dissenting rulings that I am aware of.



I'll trust you on that but that don't mean I believe the protestors. Too many of them doing time on that little argument. (lol).

Sadly that is true. IRS don't really seem to keen on obeying the law..

Yep. That's been going on forever..

And it is still happening. I am very familiar with that little trick too..

I'm not really into bashing them and I don't claim to be a protestor either. I do know some people who would easily qualify for that however..

Probably the best way...

Right on!.

There is a thread not too many days old started by a woman who had her bank account garnished. She wanted to know if it was legal, what her rights are, etc..

I looked up her history on this board, read all her old posts. She started here two years ago, used some of the credit repair techniques, had some success and some set-backs..

At one point whe was trying to buy a house. She was looking at financing at 11% with a seller carry-back. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I do mortgages and I remember thinking the house was too expensive for her income even at normal rates. I wasn't able to find if she ever bought the house or not..

The point is she was a user of this board for two years, and was in the same situation she started in. Unable to pay the bills and getting sued for it..

I think that's what non-judgmental advice does. Judgment isn't about making someone feel bad, it's a reality-check. Nobody from this board ever told her that what she really needs is to stop spending too much and to find a way to pay her bills, yet that's exactly what she needs to hear..

I ask the same question. How many people come here, ask a few questions, get some answers, and then get themselves into deeper trouble because they didn't address the real issues in their lives?.

You wouldn't know about them. They would be the ones who lurk for a while, ask some questions for a few weeks or months, and then vanish, their handles forgotton by the regulars...

Good point, Jlynn. I havn't been here long and my opinions are still evolving. I havn't read all 1106 pages of posts here, but I've read more than you think..

Not much not lately. Hey, don't hate the messenger, hate the message. I've Ive been reading these posts for a week, and I havn't seen them. Maybe it's time to emphasize it some more?.

I hear this so often. I don't live in the real world, I've never faced hardship...Usually it comes from the same people who say I make assumptions about others..

I live in the same world you do, I live by the same rules. Hardships and tragedy happen to everyone, I'm no exception...

The thing abuot Shot Caller is that he.

Owns.

The payday loan store. When he loans you money, it's.

His.

Money. The same money he uses to buy groceries, pay his mortgage and car payment,keep his business going, and keep his kids in school. If you don't pay him back, you threaten his ability to do all these things. He takes that very personally..

It's different when you know that, don't you think? It's not the big heartless multi-national billion dollar creditor against the little guy. With Shot Caller, it's one-on-one. He loaned his personal money. If he doesn't get paid, he's out that money. It's not a group of nameless shareholders who lost a fraction of a penny in share value, it's one man out $1000..

Ugh...So you think a person should stiff his creditors just because he's 34 and should start thinkng about retirement? Better the banks should take a loss...?!.

You seem to think that it's right for a large financial entity with deep pockets to pay for the mistakes of an individuals poor judgment. The problem with that thinking is that there are only a hadfull of these large financial entities, and there are.

Three hundred million Americans..

If you do the math, a typical credit card balance can be paid off in four to five years with the minimum payment, so long as the consumber doesn't reduce the payment as the balance goes down. Of couse, it gets paid off a lot faster if the consumer pays more...

Mycroft, please understand that it is not my intention to further the spats going on nor to put you down in any way when I say that in my personal opinion it is you who needs the reality check. I will explain why in just a moment..

I most respectfully disagree. Here is why. You don't know the lady and neither do I. What I am aware of is the sad fact that all of us are not born equals and as far as you know that lady may just be blessed with an IQ somewhere in the 70 to 90 range..

That don't mean she is an idiot. If that is the case then she may very well be severely handicapped in one area and pretty well advanced in others and some.

Where in the middle on others. It's called "educationally handicapped" and thankfully today we recognize those unfortunates in our society..

Take my own son for instance. He has an IQ of 70 and the doctors say he will never be able to operate at a level greater than that of a 12 year old child. He will soon be 21 years old. And he still don't manage money very well and can't even count his change correctly most of the time..

The kid is so dumb that he can't even do 3rd grade math very well. His handwriting is horrible. He never seems to learn. Or does he? Let's see about that now..

What does he do that's right? Well, he is bilingual, fluent in English and Spanish. He is good at fixing and programming computers. He has a pretty good grasp of networking principles and hubs and routers and switches and he knows most of the common operating systems pretty well. He does house calls fixing other people's computers and lots of his customers are Hispanics. He's good at lots of other things too..

Is he a dummy? I don't think so. He does have disabilities but he isn't an idiot by any stretch of the imagination. Most folks don't even realize just how badly he is handicapped until they have known him for a very long time. He's never been involved in gangs or drugs, don't smoke, drinks once in a while when with friends but that's about it. All in all, he's a pretty good kid even if he does have his faults and shortcomings..

And his shortcomings are well documented to have been a birth defect, an accident at birth in the delivery.

Room at the hospital and it wasn't something that the docs could have avoided either..

It may be that and it may be "spanking" someone who has a learning disability too. No matter how much you beat people like that all they can do is suffer. That's because they don't have the capacity to do different..

But do you know that? Do you know that the person you are trying to "reality check" isn't a handicapped person? Did you ever stop to consider that before you start thowing your "reality checks" around?.

No, you didn't and don't try to feed me some BS about it because the thought never crossed your mind..

Do you really think the person you are "reality checking" is going to get down on their knees and sob and cry and beg you to leave them alone because they are handicapped and can't help what they do? IF so, think again because all they are going to do is hate your guts. And those people in this and other communities watching that person take your "well intended" abuse are going to hate your guts too..

I think it is you who needs the reality check so just consider this to be your reality check..

I can see slamming others when they slam you but until you are viciously attacked as I have been at times in the more distant past then I don't think "reality checks" are in order..

Like I said, I hope you take this as a "reality check" and not another "attack" or put down...

Amazing!! People who feel they are so good they can pass judgment on others. I went to that board one time. It turned my stomach...

I appreciate your words, Bill. I know you say them with a kind heart..

No, I've never had anyone get down on their hands and knees and beg me for anything, handicapped or not. Well, in play, but that's a private matter ;).

The most common response I get is that "you don't live in the real world, you've never known tragedy or hardship, I hope you never have to face...".

Sometimes I get no response..

Sometimes, rarely, I get a thank you. Sometimes it's public, sometimes private, it's always heartwarming to hear. There have been some recent ones over at MSN Money credit repair for both myself and Shot Caller within the last week. If you still lurk there, you may have seen them..

Still, if you think I step over the line sometimes, you're welcome to be my Jimmeny Cricket. :)..

No, I just go check out the posts once in a while..

I already play Jimmy Cricket to about 375 people nationwide right now and they are paying me to do it..

On top of that I've got to take care of family and am in the process of learning a new batch of programming language. I've got to run my own message board and write articles and much much more..

And you want me to Jimmy Cricket you for free?..

I'm one of the hundreds who learned a lot from Jiminey Cricket (Bill). I would rather hang with Jiminey Cricket any day than the folks at MSNM..

NV Bone Doc.

Member of the 650 Club.

True health comes from within..

1*Most credit problems are lifestyle issues.

2*At MSN Money, the prevailing wisdom is that if you have these credit problems, you need to change the lifestyle that leads to the problem..

3*A credit report is just a reflection of how you've handled your money..

Mycroft.

================.

1*Finally an explanation as to why 70& of credit reports are in error..

2*What good wound that do when the corrupt reporting and scoring methods are rigged against you?.

3*This shell game reflects any thing but the facts about one..

The END ************************* LB 59..

Budgeting. Having a solid budget and STICKING TO IT is a sure fire way to avoid most collections and late pays..

SDBoy |.

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Only thing is the corrupt industry is designed to make you look bad no matter what you do or don't do so that it gives them an excuse to overcharge you for insurance and credit..

Budgeting is not a sure fire thing as there are big problems on the other end..

The END ************************* LB 59..

1*Many people that are here made their mistakes when they were young and dumb, and now want to fix their problems and begin to handle money in a sound fashion..

Jlynn.

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1*And the rewards for their efforts is some new half truth placed on their reports with the wrong assumption about it and there goes their credit to he** again through no fault or effort of their own...

It might help to window the information and reduce some of the duplication. Any thoughts?.

Garosenb.

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Your idea is not new..

This has been hashed over many times in the past 2 years and it was found the way we have it now is best...

See, the problem I've seen with MSN is that, MSN people seem to be saying if there's something bad on your credit, it's your fault.

Rackt3.

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How can the 70% error rate on credit reports be the consumers fault?.

The END ************************* LB 59..

I've seen wSee, the problem the 70% rate on credit reports ierror th MSN is thayour fault.

T, MSN bad on your credit, it's rackt3.

==================.

How can be the consumers fault?.

The ENDpeople seem to be saying if there's something ************************* LB 59..

No. I don't. He should be very proud of himself praying on financially desperate people at loan shark rates. Disgusting and sickening. Those places should all be closed down...

Payday loan storefronts are known for horrible abuses including charging practically usurious rates. Of course I don't know about the individual in question who may well not represent that type of lender. Unfortunately, though, that industry is typified by exploitation. :(.

Doc..

The alternative is not loaning these people money..

The truth is there is a need for his type of service. While it's true that the fees on a payday loan are high, there are times when $100 today can save you a lot more money than the $15 service fee you pay two weeks later..

You can bash guys like him in the name of consumer protection, but the truth is the consumers he serves don't want your protection...

Is there a lender you don't like? :D.

Doc..

Doc, don't we all know the answer to that question..

I was going to mention Shot Caller in another thread where mycroft was questioning whether or not my students ought to seriously consider whether or not the price of my tuiton was worth it..

But at the time I decided to leave Shot Caller out of it since a more important point came to mind first..

The question in my mind is how do we know that mycroft is indeed an.

Ex.

-bill collector?.

I have my serious doubts about the EX part. Those who no longer have any connection usually aren't nearly as agressive in trying to discredit someone as mycroft obviously is..

As I pointed out a few days ago the ACA rag put out an article attempting to make people believe that collectors are professionals and that folks should not pay attention to those advocating that they just hang up on bill collectors and refuse to talk to them on the phone..

They tried to claim that the collections professionals couldn't help people if they refuse to talk to them and.

Just hang up on them..

Since I"m the only one I've ever seen that is continually harping on that point I think I have plenty of reason to think it was me they were telling people not to pay any attention to..

Now all of a sudden we get mycroft in here pumping our his propaganda on the same thread, trying to discredit me and tell folks they shouldn't pay any attention to me and what I teach..

Now why would he do that if he wasn't in the industry anymore?.

And if my thinking is correct then he is doing just exactly what the definitions say that a troll does do..

And if he isn't a troll for ACA then what on earth else could his agenda be?.

Most people who leave an industry just don't act the way Mycroft does. It just isn't normal at all...

For the most part, new posters to MSN Money, CN or other similar sites come to those sites because they have a credit problem. Not because they are educating themselves for the future; they have a problem NOW..

There are three components to those problems that people really should address:.

1. What caused it and how can it be avoided in the future?.

2. How do I fix the immediate problem (e.g., the summons to court, the collectors calling)?.

3. How do I minimize the aftermath (e.g., the seven years of bad credit scores, the inability to borrow money)?.

The MSN Money answer to these questions is:.

1. You caused it by being an irresponsible deadbeat, stop being a deadbeat..

2. Pay the money..

3. Wait seven years..

The truth is that:.

1) not all credit problems are the fault of the person who has the problem, and even if they are, that isn't relevant. What people need help with is not LOOKING BACKWARD, putting on horsehide and whipping themselves, they need help with MOVING FORWARD. And that's why they COME to these boards. They need help. Failing to give them help and berating them instead is a socially degenerate character trait shared by an unfortunately large number of MSN Money posters..

2) paying the money is generally a good idea if it's feasible, but it's NOT always feasible, or even possible. It's a LOUSY idea to just tell someone to pay it without considering the third part of this triad, and it's arrogant to the point of stupidity to tell everyone who comes onto a board to pay the debt without understanding the parameters of their problem. IT IS MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO PAY SOME DEBTS..

3) Waiting seven years is a nice way to horsewhip oneself, but given that we all have one and only one life to live, it's pretty damn stupid for anyone to swallow that, and pretty damn stupid for anyone to suggest it, when it can be avoided..

MSN Money regards CN posters as inveterate slackers, all out to cheat their way out of paying legitimate bills that they both should and CAN pay. There are certainly some of those types of people here, but that's not the point of this board..

The point of this board (at least until recently) is to HELP people solve the 2nd and 3rd parts of the 3-part problem I listed above. The first part is generally left to the individual..

The point of the MSN Money board (at least the most prevalent posters) seems to be to berate people into paying their debt and suffering with it..

Which is more helpful?..

As for Shot Caller, this guy doesn't lend out HIS money, he lends out his INVESTORS money. He lends it out with such a ridiculously high charge attached that he can brag about his own wealth, AND the 16-36% return on investment that he gives his investors. He makes this money by lending it to people that no reputable lending institution would touch, because the people are TOO HIGH RISK, then whines when people actually default on him. He brags about tactics that, at least in some states, are illegal. I am reasonably certain that he regards lying and bullying as legitimate business tactics. His business, in my opinion, may well be necessary, but it flirts with the edge of legality/morality.

Pointing to this man as a moral icon is seriously deluded...

Red Devil:.

While you and I obvioiusly have the same opinions on that it does often depend upon who sets the agenda and what their opinions are..

If one is in the position of the dolphin caught in a tuna fishing net then the poor dolphin is subject to the agenda of the tuna boat..

Quite frankly it seems to me that the postion of the poor.

Dolphin and the hapless person visiting on the MSN money board are both in about the same shape..

LOL..

Right on all counts..

Most payday loan outfits and pawn shops alike are owned by banks who are looking for much higher interest on their money than they can get by lending money in their normal channels..

Cash America, Mid America Pawn and tons more are owned by the banks...

I will not be here much anymore but in case anyone questions the mentality of the msn money board I wish to share with you a very recent post that goes behind anything I have ever seenIt makes shot caller seem like an angel. It is esentially a reply in one post to a problem in another so I will just post the appropriate parts..

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Hello everyone, I am new to the board and find it to be very helpful. My question is I see posts over and over stateing "If you dont pay your bills you are a deadbeat" I agree to an extent. I believe that if you have racked up credit cards, mortgages, or whatever else you should pay. But also here is where I disagree. I was in an automobile accident 4 years ago my daughter was killed and I was severly hurt suffereing a broken hip 2 broken legs, and a punctured lung. My daughter managed to hang on for 3 days until she passed.

My bills today are in excess of $400,000. Obviously I couldnt work for some time. 1 year to be exact. So naturally I lost my house couldnt pay my credit cards and everything was eventually charged off. Now the CA's are still calling.

And Ill be damned if I am paying any company that didnt work with me. A few did a few put off my payments but most didnt. So tell me am I a deadbeat??? Or should I seriously consider useing whatever tactics necessary to REPAIR MY CREDIT!!! I think I know the answer. Be careful about what you say here ladies and gentlemen not everyone just didnt pay there bills..

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Here is the response: I feel the rage in me and I am not the one that was even affected:.

From: nmattern Sent: 4/16/2003 4:10 PM.

Tux,.

God, how I would love to shoot you. Just be happy that I'mnot your creditor, I'd have sued you into the great beyond LONG ago, regardless if some daughter bit the dust in some accident..

You can get your ostrich head out of the sand and declare BK. Pride means nothing to you obviously. You'll live long and without stress. (assuming you get adequate health insurance this time).

And one more thing. I'm a amatuer body builder, I would love to meet you face to face. Bring an army with you too, that way you'll have a chance...

Oh my gosh. I read a thread the other day where they were talking about deadbeat debtors living in trailer parks and selling their food stamps to buy cigarettes and beer, but this above post absolutely takes the cake and literally enrages me to the point where I wish *I* could meet them face to face with my louisville slugger gen1x softball bat. Damn...