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First question I got is How is the average fixed rate for a 30-year Lending Tree mortgage now? Looking forward for any comment. Another quick question... OK...I am new here and I have just been reading the past week or so. And I was hoping to ask a few questions and get some advice.. |
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Good question... I dunno what is the right answer. I'll do some poking around and get back to you if I got an decent answer. You should email the people at Lending Tree as they probably could give you help..
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The boat....yeah, maybe at the end of the summer..
The car...no, have to have it.. I have thought of selling everything I can and live like crap for a few years and pay things off. However, with the divorce behind me...I am just now starting to enjoy life and I feel like I have a reason to be alive. I now understand that emotinal health is pretty damn important. Therefore, selling everything and living like that...is not an option.. My credit is also not that critical to me anymore. I have a fairly new home and car. My parents had to file BK about 15years ago and they used my credit for several years. So...they kinda owe me now. Obtaining credit for a new car or something...won't be a problem... |
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Why waste any more time you're already bankrupt...just file and get it over with..
There's no way you will ever pay off that debt, unless you win the lottery, so why kid yourself into thinking that you can do anyhting except file bankruptcy.. If you plan it properly, you'll save the boat and other toys.. Also, remember that your house isn't really with $140k. The trustee will value it much lower than that. A decent BK attorney will be able to get some of the 2nd mortgage stripped off the home.. Your car isn't worth $25k, either. The trustee will value it at a wholesale level, so you can probably negotiate something there too. Of course, I'd just give the car back and get a different one anyway.. Stop paying the bills, save the cash, and start planning to file in 3-4 months. If I were you, I'd have my parents open a savings account in their names, and then start putting money in there... |
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Thanks for the advise. that's kinda what I have been planning. However, I found this board and I wanted to do some research and make sure there weren't some better alternatives..
What about the line of credit that is in both mine and my ex's name. if I file BK on it...are they going to go after her?. Oh...and I want to keep the car. it's decked out pretty nice and I have only had it about a year or so... |
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I would think carefully before I started hiding money from the court...
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"I would be careful before I started hiding money".
Why? explain?.. |
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If you are moving money into your parents name to avoid declaring it during the BK, that is considered fraud...
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Yeah, no one EVER does that..
Oh my.... If you plan properly, follow the LAW, and don't make stupid moves, there's no reason not to come out of bankruptcy clean.. Just transfer the money to the parents long enough before the BK fling that it's not illegal... |
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No, it's not, provided he does it the right way..
He needs to see an attoreny who really understands the BK laws, and not an attorney who goes for quantity instead of quality.. Doesn't the original poster owe his parents a lot of money? (hint hint) Is there anything illegal about paying them back 6 months before filing bankruptcy?.. |
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Wouldn't that fall under "preferential payment to a creditor"? Which I do believe IS a big no no......
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Yeah...I "owe" them some money. Better yet...how about I just start stashing cash at home?.
;). OK...other question. I have been using these cards and accounts. I am not any more...they are maxed.. How long should I wait to file since I have been using these? If I don't wait...cant they come back and say I was using the cards...knowing that later I was going to file?. Thanks... |
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No, provided he does it far enough in advance of the filing..
Bankruptcy is something that is best planned 6 months in advance. Since the original poster obviously has the luxury of time, he would be smart to start planning for a BK later this year... |
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6 months..
The CC isuers don't care about you...you're just a number to them. If you file BK, your number will be written off as a bad debt... |
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Why are you even CONSIDERING bankruptcy on a $75K salary???.
___________. "First off...I have a first and second mortgage totally about $138,000.00. My house is worth about $140,000.00.". Easily payable on your salary.. "Second I have a auto loan of around $20K, the car is worth about $25K". Can be sold, take the hit. "Stuent loans...around $27K". Not dischargable. "Boat loan...around $24K and the boat is worth about the same.". Sell the boat, take the loss.. Line of credit from MBNA with a balance of $32K. Citibank Visa with a balance of $20K. American express with a balance of $9K. MBNA visa with a balance of $2K. Bank Of America visa with a balance of $6500". So, you are really looking at $60K in dischargable debt + the losses from the boat and car. You make $75K.. A bankruptcy will haunt you for a long, long time. On the other hand, if you buckle down and work through this you can be out from under the load in a couple of years. You'll need to be clever about shifting balances around to take advantage of low interest rate offers, etc.. [Edited to correct grammar].. |
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MANY PEOPLE HAVE COME BACK FROM A LOT WORSE PLACE THAN YOU ARE WITH-OUT BK....
Chart the interest rates you now have and pay off the HIGHEST FIRST...(min payments on all accounts except the HIGHEST INTEREST RATE ACCOUNT...pay as much as you can over the min). Work one card AGAINST another card for lower rates or BT offers.... Try to cut spending.... Since the MORTGAGE is tax deductable...leave that for last.... YMMV.. |
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Well...that's nice and all. Sure I could dump everything and live like a hermit for a few years...and have no life..
Sorry...not going that way.. Yes, I could sell the boat and I may very well at the end of the summer. That's a saving of $300 a month. (not much really) And it's also a tax deduction seeing how it's meet the second home requirements.. Sell the car...hmmm...I have to have something very reliable. If I don't...I risk the income I have.. I am doing some work on the side and it's bringing in a little cash...but still very little.. I know people that have filed BK that make a lot more than I. I don't see where it has any relevance... |
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So, basically, you just don't feel like paying your bills..
Be careful. A judge may not be impressed at all if you come before him/her asking for bankruptcy for $60K in debt on a $75K salary.. Also...a boat as a second home??? That's a new one. You could be ending up with another debt not dischargable in bankruptcy...an IRS tax bill!.. |
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It's not that I don't want to pay them. I am trying to figure out the best way to get out of this. If selling everything and paying it off is the best way...I will. However, selling everything and taking 10years to pay everything off is not the best way in my opinion. I am trying to look at this based on two years.....what option will put me in the best situation in 2 years. Sure BK is bad...but will I be better off in two years...? Paying everything off...it has it's good and bad points.
Is the emotional baggage that I will have to carry for over the two years worth not filing BK? Maybe.. I have visited with a couple of attorney’s regarding BK and none of them seemed concerned with my income level. All of them said they see much much larger incomes and much more toys that people would like to keep.. Oh...and one other thing blueeyes_a ....I am 100% current on all bills and have NEVER missed one single payment. As a matter of fact both MBNA and Citi just increased my credit line. Stupid aren't they...?.. |
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If you say the loan is worth $20K, and the car's retail value is $25K, then you can very well trade the car in with a dealer, and get something much less expensive. Heck, you can get a $10K car, and still be very happy with it's reliability thus not jeopardizing your income. So between that, and getting rid of the boat, you'll likely be fine without bankruptcy...
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Still no go on the car....
I have to have at least a 3/4 ton truck for the hauling I do. Can't get one of those for $10K.. Even so...let's say I get rid of the truck and boat. and I use the extra $5K to get a used cheap car. Ok...that leaves me an extra $800 a month.. Ok...so now I make all the minium payments. How does that make me "ok"? paying $800 to $1500 a month on unsecured debt totally over $60K would take forever... |
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Well, I'm sure they're hoping you will hold high balances and they can bill more finance charges. Paying the credit cards on time are always good.. paying a lot more than the minimum is even better (not implying you don't.. just saying..)..
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If it has certain "facilities", it can be considered a 2nd home. Our RV is a 2nd home...
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Yes blueeyes_a ....the boat qualfies as a second home. All of the intrest on the boat is a tax write off..
Please do your research before you start bashing me with IRS statements... |
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How did you rack up so much credit card debt?? if you were making 75k, was that not enough for living expenses? do you have any other toys you might be able to sell?..
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Why does "how" have anything to do with my questions?.
Hell if I know "how". probably a crappy marriage, and all we did was spend.. I know I am in a bad spot and I have no one else to blame but me. I really don't need you all to beat me up any more... |
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Maybe someone with BK experience can verify. With that sort of income, isn't it possible to get thrown into Chapter 13?.
Then you end up paying a percentage of those bills + bad credit... |
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You're the one who asked people to post alternatives to BK. That's exactly what they are doing..
Sell the boat. Now. Before it depreciates further. If you need a boat ride for emotional health, rent one for a weekend.. Sell the truck. Now. Before it depreciates further. Use the $5000 toward a used reliable truck. The pre-owned market is a buyer's market.. Consolidate as many CC lines as you can into the minimal, but. Leave all the lines open. Call CC retention departments and PFB the executive offices to get the jacked rates back down to below 9.99%. If you truly haven't been late on these cards, that shouldn't be much of a problem.. Make sure that your credit reports don't have a public record on file... |
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Asking "how" I got this much debt is not an alternative to filing bk..
As for the other responces, I do appreicate them.. As far as jacked rates...? the only one above 10% is the MBNA line of credit.. As far as selling the truck....a used, low mile Diesel for less than what I already have....it very hard to come by. Besides with the debt to income ratio...I doubt I would be able to get a new loan.. Thanks... |
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Ok that's different then. You didn't specify you *had* to have a 3/4 ton truck.. Nah..not really. You could possibly negotiate with the creditors. For instance, if a person informs a credit card company that they are looking at filing for bankruptcy, the credit card company is likely to be willing to negotiate down the amount owed (better than them getting nothing) and set up a payment plan to get it paid off soon.. I don't know however, how payng a fraction of what's owed will affect the credit reports, but someone else here might know.. Since your student loan is in deferment now (not sure for how long), that's $27K you don't have to worry about right now.. Anyway, just saying that the bankruptcy will likely haunt you for 10 years, and there's a chance that you'll clear this stuff before then on your own... |
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Ok rackt3...I see what you are saying. that's the type of advise I was looking for..
Hearing sell this and sell that without further explanination doesn't do much but stregthen the frustration.. Thanks again.... Keep them coming..... |
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Sometimes frustration assists personal growth. If you're going to elect NOT to BK, then do take stock of anything that meets any of the following criteria:.
1) You can live without it.. 2) It didn't fulfill your consumerist yearnings the way you thought it would.. 3) You can sell it for twice as much as something else you can buy (for now) that will do the job 80% as well.. 4) It's been sitting in the garage for 2 years.. 5) It's a boat.. EBay is a beautiful thing. :) You may be surprised what you can stir up.. (This advice is grounded in my own experience and may not be good for you. However, whether you find this advice good or bad, don't let it "strengthen your frustration" as you put it you've asked for suggestions from total strangers, and we're spending valuable time providing that.). Doc.. |
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Based on my personal (not expert) experience with BK7, I'll humbly offer the following:.
1) Our attorney told us to stop paying creditors even before we filed. I decided to keep current on all accounts until after the day we filed. Now, (6 years later) after getting (most, still fighting) accounts from BK7 updated to "Included in Bankruptcy" with the CRAs, a lot even saying "Included in Bankruptcy/NEVER LATE", I think I made the right choice on keeping current until filing. Also, we have been current with EVERYTHING since bankruptcy discharge. With the bankruptcy, we find doing documentation work with major item (car, mortgage) lenders is a necessity to avoid higher interest rates, and it's a lot easier to explain credit report entries that are 'IIB/Never Late" than "chargeoffs", "late pays", "collection accounts", etc.. 2) Debts, especially the truck (which you say you need), can be "reaffirmed" during the BK process. You continue to pay as always or have some reaffirmation agreement with the creditor with an agreed upon payment schedule. We "reaffirmed" on a vehicle loan (just paid like always) and with Sears (they claimed a security interest in refrigerator, washer, drier) we executed a reaffirmation agreement with a fixed payment. The result was we maintained two positive tradelines in our credit files throughout and past the BK process. Discuss this with attorney IF you get to that point.. I'm NOT selling BK as what you should do. , just offering a little detail on what's involved in case you face that bridge.. On the personal opinion side, I would think the boat would be a good candidate for "liquidation" (no pun intended).. Good Luck !. P.S. An interesting development was we just received a notice from Sears that they will no longer enforce a security interest in their credit accounts. They used to be well known for doing that in BK cases... |
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First of all, I agree that the BK will haunt you for a long time. For employment or loans above a certain amount, they can check back much longer than the 10 years. My husband filed a BK, and eleven years later had trouble trying to get a job because they checked and found the BK. It can haunt you forever..
Second, how long it takes to get it all paid off is up to you. I got stuck with over $75K in unsecured debt in a divorce. I didn't even have money to live or get my car repaired without using credit. Then they started jacking up rates. But I am now within $2K of having everything below 8%. Sounds like you're already there. GEORGE explained the best way to do it. When I finally realized how bad it was and that I had to do something, I started by making a spreadsheet of everything I owed. Creditor, balance, minimum payment, and interest rate. Sort by interest rate. Figure out how much above minimum you can pay every month. Pay minimum on everything except the highest interest rate. You have to consider this a required payment, however. Don't go spend the money somewhere else.. If you get any extra money (tax refunds, work you do on the side, etc), put it all on the highest interest rate bill.. When that bill is paid off, add the additional you were paying PLUS THE MINIMUM on the account you just paid off to the next highest interest rate. I put a column in for actual payment amount and added it there. So, as you pay off bills, you pay more per month on the next one but the same total amount over all. Some people think that they should pay off the smaller balances first so they can see progress. But that still takes longer. I just made a total at the bottom for the total balance, then a line for the secured debt, subtract for unsecured debt. That's how you know you make progress.. Once you pay off an account, you only use it for things you can pay at the end of the month, like gas that you'd buy anyway. It doesn't count in the debt calculations.. Don't close the cards, just put them away. You need the limit to keep your ratios down.. If you can balance transfer to a lower rate, do it.. Update the spreadsheet every month. The bill that gets the extra may change from month to month, but only the highest rate gets the extra in any month.. It's by "rolling" the minimum from the paid off bill to the next highest bill that helps this go faster.. You can have a good time and still save money. Rent videos and watch the movies at home, where you can make your own popcorn a lot cheaper. Go to a little less expensive restaurant for dinner. Take your lunch instead of buying.. If you can pick up side work, do it. Use all the money for paying the bills.. You don't have to give up everything, but you might have to make some sacrifices. Take it from someone who's been there, you'll feel better in the long run.. I'd also think about selling the boat. But since you're getting a tax deduction on it, you may need to do more analysis on that. However, have you thought about renting the boat out? Since it qualifies as a home, I think you could probably do it as a rental property as well. That would give you more income, you could also deduct depreciation. There is a limit on how many days you could "occupy" the property, but time you're there do to maintenance doesn't count. You may want to talk to a tax professional first. Just some thoughts. As I said, I had over $75K debt. At the time, I made about $50K a year. I also inherited some money in the meantime, and put that towards bills. But I think you can do it. I personally feel much better about myself knowing I paid what was owed, whether it was actually mine or my ex's... |
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Hedwig, that is amazing! I am so impressed how you were able to dig yourself out! You should be quite proud!!..
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The HIGHEST interest rate will be PAID OFF SOON...then you move to next lower interest rate...(YOU PAY ALL YOU CAN)...maybe even >$1,000 or $2,000/per month...even if the min is $200!!!.
I have all my accounts at 0.00%-5.90%...I WILL ACCEPT UP-TO 9.99% BUT NO HIGHER...all accounts above 9.99% are ALWAYS PAID IN FULL 100% OF THE TIME.... I am happy with this system.... I HAVE NOT HAD GOOD LUCK WITH LIMIT INCREASES OR INTEREST RATE REDUCTION AS OF LATE...BUT STILL 25+ YEARS OF NO "BADDIES".. |
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It is unlikely the bankruptcy court would even find out about him paying his parents. It isn't like they are reporting to a CRA..
When I filed I was still making some payments to some of my creditors and not to others. It wasn't about preferential treatment, it was about who was the most obnoxious. I did what I could to keep them off my back. None of this was ever even mentioned in my petition, by other creditors or the trustee. I think preferential treatment is more about trying to keep certain debts out of bankruptcy...like accidently on purpose not putting a favorite, and current credit card in the petition, so that you can continue to use the credit. Thats what really ticks them off... |
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I filed chapter seven 2/2002. The debt owned on a house must be included as part of the debt in the bankruptcy. He could re-affirm, but it will still be considered. I don't think he would have a problem bankrupting, and he might be better off ditching the whole mess and renting for a while. If he includes the house and doesn't reaffirm, It is likely that he can go chapter 7 without a second thought...
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Another thing not mentioned here is exemptions. I believe it varies from state to state, but that water toy could conceivably eat up alot of his exempted items. Of course, it also may fall in a different category being a 2nd home. Not sure, but really need to lay it all out on the table for an attorney...
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I am not beating you up.. I am asking you questions to try and help you.. but with your attitude, I am not. good luck...
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Lordy, we always ask questions of each other so that we can offer better advice and counsel not to mention get to know each other we're a community. This guy must think we exist as a public service designed just for him speedy answers delivered well and just the way he likes 'em. I didn't even get so much as a "thanks, Doc" to my message which only took about 15 minutes to compose. (If he'd addressed me the way he addressed marci, I'd have put him on ignore forever already.) Maybe I should send him an invoice at my regular hourly rate, lol. :).
Doc.. |
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Yeah...send me an invoice. Do you accept credit card? If not...I will just include it in my BK. (haha).
I was not meaning to often anyone, and I am grateful for anyone’s opinion, should I agree or not.. However, 75% of the replies were sell sell and not giving me any real direction. For example...selling the boat is only $300 more a month. Not a big difference when looking at $75 grand of debt.. I have already spoken to a couple of attorneys...keeping the house and the boat is not an issue. And actually at the time I had another car...and they didn't see any issues with keeping it either since I still owed on it. I sold it for payoff.. However, asking how I got this much debt comes off more like..."Oh my god! You are stupid? I can't believe that!” And quit honestly I don't need that...and besides that question was answered with my very first post.. And doc, you didn't get a thanks because you're reply was sarcastic...and provided no help. As I said...getting rid of a $300 monthly payment does not keep me out of BK.. Maybe my post should have read..."filling BK, don't care about my credit and I want to keep everything and screw my ex over the best way possible.". :).. |
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Maybe my post should have read..."filling BK, don't care about my credit and I want to keep everything and screw my ex over the best way possible.".
THAT MAKES EVERYBODY SO HAPPY WE TRIED TO HELP!!!. WE GET PAID NOTHING TO BE HERE~~WE GET OUR REWARDS BY BEING HELPED...AND GIVING HELP IN RETURN!!!.. |
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Actually I was not being sarcastic. But make no mistake I'm not being sarcastic when I tell you this: I think you're a jerk..
Doc.. |
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:-0 Dang! This was on point!.
____. You sir, whoever you are, have just been *read*. I suggest that you find another board to ask your BK question. You just ended your welcome here... |
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Doc seems like I read somewhere "Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice. :).
Well, I have watched this thread with great interest, and have learned a lot, but most of all I have learned ....don't piss Doc off....he gets mean. hehe.. |
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I have read some of the advice, and some of the replies, I will not add or detract from what has been said. However, one thing did occur to me that I think has been overlooked (unless I missed it)..
If you file for BK, and IF as you said in your divorce you "got the debts" and if, as you said your ex PAID her part of some of the joint cc bills.Then, she can file for a rejection of your BK, as she would be left with the responsibility of paying YOUR debts on the joint accounts.. PLUS she could also file against you for contempt of court in evading the obligation of your agreed upon settlement and have the court involved not only in your BK, but also possible criminal fraud charges.. This presumes of course that she feels towards you as you sem to feel towards her... |
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Yeah Doc...I am a jerk. thanks. So are you. Do you feel better now?.
As far as my wife coming back after me. now...I am saying this based on what two different attorneys told me. Now that the divorce is final, and it has been now for a few months. I would file and list her as a creditor...thus filing against her too....leaving her no way to come after me.. For those of you that have provided useful information and kept your opinions of how I choose to deal with this to yourself....THANKS!.. |
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I think you've summed up your style quite well. As a newcomer, you're not making friends very effectively, and I can assure you that this will impact the quantity and quality of help you receive. Oops, I forgot, you want us to keep our opinions to ourselves anyway. Why are you here?.
Doc.. |
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This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]..
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You know this post was going along just fine until the first post from blueeyes_a. I think that's where my attitude changed. blueeyes_a seemed upset that I was even considering BK with a salarly like mine....Why did that need to be said? That was hardly advice and hardly anything that makes anyone new feel welcome..
Serveral folks offered great advise as well as follow up plans...not just "sell". To those people...thank you for your time!. George and Doc...man! you guys are hard headed. no wonder you guys are such senior members to this board.. I am going to bed and hopefully sleep of this bad mood Georgie and Doc got me in. ;).. |
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LOL. Well, you may be right about that. But I was serious when I suggested that you consider selling items (if you have them) you no longer need. It's a great thing to consider, and I basically was smacked for saying so. Actually, I think it was marci who first took time out from her day to attempt communicating that message, but you smacked her too (which is too bad, because she's a great teacher about this stuff). Also, blue-eyes wrote some good stuff there bk isn't always the best way to go for lots of important reasons you should consider.
Anyway I hope all this turns around for you soon. (And I'm NOT being sarcastic, OKAY?) :). Doc.. |
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OK...thanks..
I understood and understand that I should get rid of things. However, at the same time if I am going to HAVE to file BK I might as well try and keep as much as possible...seeing how I won't have the credit to do it on my own for sometime....right? well...that's at least the frame of mind I was choosing to think in. And looking at it from my narrow window and looking at a pile of debt totaling $75 and then looking at a $300 boat payment....I didn't see the connection. And yes, I know I should sell the boat...I guess what I was looking for were suggestions on how getting rid of the $300 payment was going to help any if I was still going to have to file.. Thanks... |
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You asked for advice on your situation, not for advice on how to use bankruptcy to your advantage..
The first, clear question to ask someone who is in debt is how much they make.. Incidently, since you seem to have missed it the first time, YOU CANNOT DISCHARGE STUDENT LOANS IN BANKRUPTCY... |
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Sure...knowing how much someone makes on this board is a great question...no doubt. A statement like..."why are you considering BK with a $75K salary"... is not..
And yes...I know you can't get rid of student loans. I am not including them in my totals. And actually when I add everything up that is unsecured, excluding student loans...I get around $80K. On my first post I left out a card....I was at work so I didn't have all the numbers in front of me and I was going off of memory... |
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You make a salary that will enable you to get out of the hole you are in with some effort. If you were $60k in debt and making $24K, sure, go for it. Your're kidding yourself if you think BK will solve all your problems...it may solve some, but it will also create some that will last with you for a long, long time...
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It appears to me that any advice that does not point you towards the road to BK is what you would consider some form of finger-pointing..
You have opened yourself up to opinion. Now the fact that these opinions do not coincide with your own seems to cause you some distress.. Are you looking for affirmation? You don't always get it here, as people here are not on commission... |
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I feel like I worked 18 hours today for NOTHING!!!.
:(. I'm glad tomorrow is PAID work.... :). In the OLDEN' DAYS they said "THE WORST DAY GOLFING IS BETTER THAN THE BEST DAY AT WORK". TOMORROW I will have a better day at work...(11-12 HOURS).. |
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We are not defined by what we do for work. What we do in our 'free' time is far more definitive of who we really are and who we aspire to be...
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Exactly my point.. who the hell is this guy coming here, demanding answers to questions he has?? it is our time we give to provide solutions to those who appreciate it.. that is why I stated I will not be helping him.. look at his post count? Not that should be a reflection of how you are treated mind you, but for a person that is new to come in and start demanding answers - that is simply obnoxious and rude...
Also for me, the attitude that is displayed w/o any regard to what got you there in the first place, and neglectfulness of owning up to what YOU have done.. and easily casting blame on 'your wife' so you can get a 'fresh start' is irresponsible.. do as you will, but trying to 'live life' because now you feel free just doesn't cut it for me.. as I said before, good luck cuz people are now seeing thru your motives and objectives..... |
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Some people learn the hard way Doc.. and some people want to have their cake, icing, and eat it too.. enjoy the toys and get out of debt the way they can because it was their wife's fault...
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Demanding? where was I ever demanding?.
I asked a few questions and I get resonces like I got from blueyes.. I don't want to file BK...honest. However, like I have already stated several times....how does getting rid of a $300 payment put me within reach of tackling this pile? Again, thanks to those who provided some direction with their reponces.. For as far as it being my ex-wife's fault...? Did I say that? I know I am half at blame for my crap marriage and this pile of debt. You hardly know the facts of what happened, why we are divorced, and why I have this debt. However, I must tell you...I don't believe in divorce, I didn't want one but I was forced into something I don't believe in. I also don't believe in or care for BK. But it's there for a reason...just like divorce, therefore...I am considering it.. I don't think BK will solve my problems. Even thought I don't believe in DV...my problems were solved with it.. Just a little fact here...when I got married..they only debt I had was my student loan. I had no credit card debt, no car payment...nothing but a student loan payment....and plently of cash in the bank. So...yeah, I do blame a little of my debt misfortune on my wife.. Anyways...hope everyone has a better day than yesterday. It's not monday...so it has to be a little better.. Sorry to those I offened... |
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Your choices are:.
1. Apply for BK 7 and be done with everything except house and student loans.. 2. Apply for Chap 13 and sell your toys and pay your CC debt until paid in full. If you choose not to file BK and THIS IS WHY YOU POSTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, your choices are:. 1. Drop everything, stop paying and have the toy and house repossed, and lawsuits from the CC issuers.. 2. Negotiate with CC issuers to settle (for the CC) part of the balance.. Whatever you do, you will not have success unless you implement at least one of the following:. - Increase your income (i.e. get a second job). - Reduce your expenses (i.e. sell the boat, join eBay for the other stuff).. You scoff at adding $300 to your discretionary cash, but $300 toward a CC bill can do wonders for seeing that bill decrease... |
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Exactly my feelings. You have made up your mind and are looking for affirmation..
The best advice I can give, is what others have given, get a good lawyer.. You have already spoken to two, so you know your options.. I do wish you the best, as I feel most others do. (even Doc & Marci) :). Jay.. |
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I have a couple of cents to add here, I know nothing about BK, just about the emotions of being overwhelmed in debt. Fullofdebt, you sound like my DH when we were in the throws of digging ourselves into debt (before we realized that is what we were doing)..
It's called anger, and denial. When you are in this stage you can justify everything and anything to keep yourself from feeling the depression, pain, anger (pick an emotion) of facing the situation head on. We were there (all of us on the board).. If you are really interested in getting out of debt and not declaring BK, you can do it. You have to sacrifice some things, period. We are all doing or have done it- life goes on and it's not forever (although it seems like it right now to you).. Your $300/ month boat payment can make a big difference when paying things off with the plan outlined in an earlier post. Don't look at $300 against $80K- that is too overwhelming and justifies your choice for not selling the boat. Your boat costs you $300/month for the loan, what about the upkeep of the boat, gas, docking fees, repair, etc... That is more than $300 and is another baby step in paying down your debt, apply that money to the highest interest loan. Over time it makes a difference, not in one month.. It will not take 6 months to pay yourself out of debt that is for sure. You have to choose which plan is right for you, but I don't think you are ready to make a choice yet. You seem very angry about the divorce (rightfully so if she was cheating) and in denial about how you got into the debt to begin with. I think you need to do some soul searching and evaluate your emotions before choosing a path at this point. If you are current on all debts and can continue for a little longer, I would work through some emotional issues first.. You need to see both sides clearly, pros and cons before you can decide. Right now it seems as if you have so much anger (again rightfully so). but it is clouding your judgement and causing you to feel you cannot deny yourself anything because you have already been denied.. Ok, I really have to stop watching Dr. Phil in the afternoons, sorry this is so long!!! Good Luck in whatever you decide... |
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Hi,.
I am a long time lurker and by no means consider myself an expert, nor do I have any answers. But I do have several questions for Fullofdebt that I think should be considered.. 1) What are your current credit scores? I suspect they must be decent considering you said MBNA and Citi just increased your credit limits. If they are good, then Bk will tank them. You are current on all of your bills and have low apr's. If you can slowly pay off your debts then your scores will stay good and you can be in better shape 2 years from now.. 2) What is your debt ratio? If it is high, then your credit card companies will probably jack up your rate. But it sounds like they have not done that yet.. 3) When are you due to start repaying on your student loans, and houw much will your payments be? Will this be enough to push you over the edge?. Many people have given you good advise here. Remember, you did not get into this much debt over night and you can't get out of it overnight. I understand your frustration. But you must take the emotion out of this and look at it as a business decision... |
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Again....thanks everyone. Irisheyes...thanks for your thoughts. I think you are right on several levels..
Marci...as far as your option #1...why do you say walk walk only the house and student loans? From what I have been told by professionls here...is that I can walk away with the house, the boat, the car, my 401k, my IRA..... Thanks!.. |
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I didn't say "walk away with". I said "be done with"..
You cannot discharge student loans. And I assume that you want to keep your house and not sell it or have it foreclosed on you (if you don't, you should).. The rest of the stuff is up to your trustee. If you're going to do BK, get a very good attorney now... |
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I cannot believe this. Honestly. If you have consulted with so many people who are telling you the exact opposite of what everyone is saying here, then I wonder why you are bothering with this thread? Listen to whomever you want, but I don't think you'll convince people around here that you can have a house, a boat, and everything you currently have without making one single solitary sacrifice. You want to keep the boat, house, all you have, file bankruptcy, and not have one ounce of skin off of your nose? If you can find a lawyer who will do it for you and a judge who will agree, all the power to you. However, it seems you want many to nod their heads and pat you on the back...
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I came here for advice...and just because I question it, does not mean I disagree with it. It's called education. If I ask someone what they meant by something I am asking because I am trying to understand the logic behind the statement. It's really a pretty easy process. Most things in life work this way..
I also never said I was against selling the boat. The only thing that I would like to keep SHOULD I file BK is the house and car. I have been questioning the boat because I did not understand the logic behind people’s simple statements of just "sell". That has now been explained...and I understand. It was explained and I understand now because I asked for the logic behind the statement.. I am also not saying that I wouldn't have to make any sacrifices...that seems like common sense. If I was looking for the easy way out I would have already asked the grandparents for the money. however, I have gone my entire life since I was 16 making it on my own and have never asked anyone for a dime. I don't think I need to start now.. I am asking about BK because it is the option that stands out the strongest. Therefore, I want to understand it the best so that I can make the correct choice for ME. Thus the questions of asking people to explain themselves when they make such blunt statements with no facts or explanations backing them up.. I have not consulted with that many people...thus the reason I came here. So far I have only talked with two different local BK attorney’s. Of course they are pro BK...that's how they make their money. So...I do take everything they say with a grain of salt. If I agreed with them, I would have already filed. I too agree...that it seems unrealistic that I would be able to file BK, and keep the house, boat, car...and at the time I talked with the attorneys I also had a another car with a note. That seems ridicules...to me as well. However, two separate attorneys have told me the same thing...almost word for word. And since I receive that information from them...I try and validate it, and ask questions to third parties... |
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Sometimes you've just got to have thick skin and not let every little thing bother you..
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One other thing..
You're looking at the boat payment as 300 a month, but count the 25K you owe on it in the 80K of debt.. Sell the boat and reduce your overall debt, pehaps by more than you owe on it.. Why tank your scores and your reputation (what FICO really is, a numerical representation of your reputation, which is why we're all so horrified by ours when they're down)?.. |
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Nope...not counting the boat in the total amount of unsecured debt..
And you are correct...I don't want to tank my score.. Thanks... |
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Another way that might help to look at it, since we all seem fixated on the $300 (does it or doesn't it help that much?)..
How much are the minimum payments on your credit cards, their balances, and credit limits. How "short" are you falling each month? How much do you need to get rid of to get comfortable? Can we help with suggestions on budget? Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees, you may have stuff eating you up monthly that you really can't see right now.. Thats alot of personal information to lay out on the internet. Have you thought about going to a professional financial advisor and see if they can set you up on a budget? (Not CCCS or similar). If you truly want to explore all options, don't overlook budget planning. May be that 6 months of serious belt tightening will get you going where you can breathe easily, and not file BK... |
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I just saw this thread. Just so the poster is aware:.
1. Paying ANYTHING to a relative and/or business partner within a YEAR of filing is a preferential payment, and would be reversed unless you have a contract and you are not making payments above the agreed amount. Even then, it's going to be looked at. And it's going to be looked at going back further than 1 year, if the question comes up. 2. An income of $75k will get you looked at very carefully by most jurisdictions in this country for a C13. I make not much more than that, I live in a very expensive part of the country, and I'm paying $450 a month (it would have been $900, except I planned things and bought a new car 3 weeks prior to filing). I spoke to 7 lawyers, including two who ONLY do C7s, and they ALL said I make way too much to get away with a C7.. 3. Please don't discuss hiding cash on this board. It's AGAINST THE LAW.. The BK courts are getting a lot tougher about things in accordance with Congress' apparent desire to tighten the screws. You are not just subject to the local Trustee, you'll be reviewed by the Federal Trustee as well, and they aren't nice guys.. If you want to file BK, more power to you, but don't count on it being a cakewalk.. If I had only owed that much, I would have paid it... |
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On reflection, I take back my last sentence. You owe 4x salary. That's the same boat I was in for over a decade, every time I thought I was making progress, some 5k disaster happened, or some CC company reviewed my credit and bumped my rates from 9.9 to 29.9..
You'd have to put 50% (about 70% of takehome) into debt repayment for a decade to get rid of that pile of debt. That's ridiculous. Just don't expect to keep the boat, and don't go hiding money. (I'd get rid of the boat anyway, it will do you good to live more simply.). BTW, BK courts don't generally let people budget to keep secured luxuries, including 2nd homes. Maybe you're in a particularly BK friendly state, but I'd ask a few more attorneys. Some are quite happy to file a C7 for you, then charge you again to file the C13 when the C7 gets denied and your credit is now screwed so bad you can't do anything else... |
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The house, the boat, the car, the student loans, and the unsecured debt = about 4 x salary...
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If you need something reliable, sell your 25K car, take the 5 grand profit (if indeed the car will sell for that much more than you owe) and put it into your highest interest rate account. Or the BofA. Then buy a small, well built reliable car (like a Honda Civic - I got a new 2002 LX for a total original loan amount of about 13.6K). You now have a smaller car payment and 5 grand of unsecured paid off. Your paid off 25K car loan will also look pretty good..
Sell the boat. You need to be putting that $300 a month into unsecured debt. I impossible that the tax benefit is paying for the boat all by itself.. The reason I said to pay down the BofA - it's smaller than most of the other debts and easier to pay down. Pay it down to zero, just once, wait a few months, and they'll start sending you low-interest BT deals. Take the ones with no BT fee if they beat the rate on you other unsecured, and park some debt there cheaply, instead.. Your house loan sounds like it would have a reasonable payment considering your salary. Keep it. Do not get upside down by taking out more loans against it.. Most importantly...make a budget. You must track everything you spend. You got into 60K of unsecured debt because you were leaking money like all the colanders in Italy. I recommend you cut up every credit card and store the pieces in your file cabinet. If you can't live without them while you pay off your debt, not even bankruptcy will save you; you'll just end up in the same boat - no pun intended - if you can't spend within your means. Apply for no new credit.. If it was your wife who got you into the mess, and you are the financially disciplined one, then none of these recommendations should pose any problem for you... |
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I don't mean to be too harsh, but the reality is, living off credit is living off of money that you haven't earned (yet). You've asked your creditors to spot you many dimes, and if you declare bankruptcy, you will be forcing them to let you keep them, too..
(Not that I'm particularly on the side of faceless corporate creditors. Just pointing out a oft obscured truth.).. |
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Instead of asking your grandparents to GIVE you the money, ask them to LOAN it to you. You need to draw up a promissory note and make monthly payments. The interest rate must be reasonable..
If you default, they can take you to court. The rate has to be reasonable in the market to make it not be a taxable event, but rates are pretty low right now.. Use the amount you borrow to pay off the highest interest rate loan and work downward, as I detailed before.. The advantage to this is that the debt is "hidden." If you don't use the cards you pay off, you'll lower your debt to CL ratio, and you'll get better offers. As you get them, only BT to a paid off card, and don't use it for anything else. Keep rolling the minimums that are paid off into what you pay the next one. You'll be surprised how the numbers will start to come downslowly at first, then faster and faster as you get to lower interest rate debt and are therefore paying much more on the principal.. If your grandparents want to help you out, they can each give you up to $11K (I think that's the amount this year) per year without tax consequences to either of you. If they give you a gift, you can decide to give them equivalent gifts later, that would postpone some of your payments... |
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I didn't have any debt until I got married. :) (other than school loans) So...no, I was not living off of credit...
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What are the interest rates on your 1st and 2nd loans on the home? That 2nd must be at a high rate..
If they are high, look at getting a new 1st at a lower rate and reduce those payments.. Cas.. |
